Josh, old bean; I don't expect anything to be off the record with you.

I probably didn't mean off the record as such, I just meant that I considered the discussion with Garry to be similar to discussions that happen in newsrooms around something like a murder. Speculation is always rife, but no-one would dream of printing it unless it's stood up.

On vox pops, I agree with you and bma that they should be done properly or not at all. As I said, I think they're useless as a barometer of local feeling (wherever that locale may be).

When I said I was surprised that comment goes up unfiltered, I wasn't thinking of anything as noble as impartiality, or even considering libel. Rather, my uncouth mind immediately thought that you're running the risk of some serious swearing that may offend some of your readers.

I have no idea whether people have to jump through any hoops to have their comment appear on the Echo website, you'll know far more about it than I, having done a stint there.

But I do think hoopless is best, despite the potential for libel (although in reality if libels are removed quickly they'd be unlikely to land a publisher in court) and even swearing.

If readers take the trouble to comment then, clearly, you've engaged them and don't want to disengage them so having their post appear immediately will let them know there's no Room 101.

Of course, one still can't take a temperture reading from reader posted comments as "the usual suspects" rule applies, but at least people feel they have a stake, or at least the opportunity.

Tom, you can't surely expect writing online in public is off-the-record?! SR2 Blog might not commandeer Guardian-like web traffic but there are people watching/reading/using.

As for comments being unfiltered (except spam - spam is filtered): I think this is the best way - leaves us safe from accusations of endorsing particular standpoints by clicking 'publish'.

Until comments start getting libellous then we'll keep this moderation. If I'm not mistaken, it's the same moderation protocol as the Echo, isn't it?

As for the conversation: It's been a real interesting read. Personally, I think TV camera crews have a responsibility to present an accurate portrayal of the mood of the place with their vox pops.

If they've spoken to 10 people - nine considering moving home, one thinking it's an anomaly blown out of proportion - then present that. Unfortunately, I don't think TV crews have the luxury of time when they're out and about - they're rushed and they'll think, 'One more 'n that'll do it' - having spoken to bare minimum of people.

Interesting discussion anyway.

It would seem slightly dishonest to present only one side of the story like that; if only victims of crime are interviewed, without anyone to give an opposing point of view, of course viewers/readers will get the impression that there's a lot of crime.

There's an obvious selection bias too, in that people who've been victims of crime are more likely (understandably) to want to complain about it, whereas those who haven't probably aren't so interested in being interviewed (unless they happen to care enough to defend Hendon's reputation).

I'd be tempted to say that if the TV crew couldn't get a reasonable balance of opinions, then they shouldn't show the interviews - unless they really want to give the impression that Hendon is a crime blackspot.

Oh, we're getting along famously now. I am pleased.

Tough question on Vox pops. I guess one hopes they're representative, but in a sense they probably are "news" if viewers / listeners / readers believe them. I think, though, most people understand they're nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction made soon after some event. Personally, I think they're pretty worthless.

I agree that it's unfortunate the TV crew found a punter who'd been done over twice if it doesn't really reflect the area, but you'll know yourself that vox pops can be very hard to get. We often struggle at the Echo, even over the least controversial of questions. What puts many off is the presence of me with a camera (or maybe it's just the presence of me). They're having a bad hair day or whatever, or are happy to give their views annonymously. Must be doubly difficult if the camera's a telly one.

Speculation - never in print. I thought we were just having an off the record (though I'm very surprised you SR2 cats allow comments to go straight up, unfiltered).

You're right to say one shouldn't speculate in a piece, but as hacks we should be speculating like hell behind the scenes to be ready to go with whatever eventuality comes out in the wash. Life's a weird old bag of bananas and the things that motivate people can be staggering.

Or perhaps that's just as clumsy and sad a rehash as the original speculation. Hendon folk are no different to anyone else, which means there'll be extremes of good and bad present.

I'm not really sure what your last par means - but if you're saying you were within your rights to have a pop at me then you sure were/ are.

Are vox pops representative? Or actually news? The fact that the TV found one person who was burgled twice leaves an impression of Hendon not warranted by the crime statistics.

You say there was a possibility the he was targeted. True, but I see no reason to engage in speculation.

I am well aware of Sunderland Newcastle rivalry, which dates back to the Civil War, if not early with the Elizabethan monopoly of the coal trade granted to Newcastle.

I didn't take your overarching comments about Hendon personally. Why should I, not being from the area myself. Instead I found it a clumsy sad rehash of old perceptions.

Objective journalism requires objective reporting. I don't believe responses to deprecating comments require the same degree of neutrality, I#m not that smart a reporter.

I seem to have upset you, Garry. It wasn't the intention, but ...

There's nothing wrong with bland, if bland is what people's answers are. But you're claiming that TV news crews are creating news by running the most sensational vox pops. Don't you have faith that the VPs they ran (whoever they were) were representative of what local people said to them? Or would you have preferred them to have created some bland news?

And so what if the Hendon crime figures are available from the cops? It's for a reporter covering a story to recite them in that story. My suggestion for including them is to show the facts about crime in the area at a time when the fact of a murder there may well lead people to believe that it's a lawless area.

As for Redpath's Gateshead origins, that's just what I meant. The fact that you took it personally doesn't alter the reality that Tyne-Wear rivalry often spills over from the football terraces and influences "real life" events, even murders.

While Redpath's murder wasn't premeditated, the burglary that led to it most certainly was. Surely there's a possibility that he was targeted for the burglary in preference to a native?

Skirting around you jumping to the conclusion that I jumped to the conclusion that everyone in Hendon is some kind of Trog, you can't tell me that it's not just like anywhere else in that it has its pockets of tribalism and a number of people who would - and do - shun incomers. Ergo, it's possible that Redpath's home was targeted, inadvertantly leading to his murder.

Objective journalsim requires an open mind and a thick skin, yet you seem to have been personally offended that I raised a possibility and somehow disssed the people of Hendon. Let's take Austrian people. Most of them are very nice, I guess, but Austria did produce Hitler. Same principle.

For what it's worth (probably not much now), I think you guys are doing a great job with the SR2 Blog, and have told Josh as much. I really believe there's something in this hyperlocal approach and I'm interested to see how it pans out. Getting paid is going to be your problem, as it is for all news publishers whose content is online, but I wish you luck.

What's wrong with bland? A TV newscrew rushing in and out of the area and grabbing the most sensational voxpops is not reporting news, it's creating news and giving false impressions.

The actual crime figures for the area are readily available from Northumbria Police, and are indeed sent to every household. SR2Blob also attends local police/public community meetings and has even more uptodate figures.

As for the "racial element". Keith Redpath came from Gateshead. Thanks for perpetuating the idea of Neanderthal Hendon, opposed to any outsider.

SR2Blog is hyperlocal. Designed to give a true local view, from local people. That's why we reported events, whilst the Echo simply said a "murder has happened, we'll tell you about it on Monday". Sunday seems to be a day of rest in Pennywell.

I don't want to piss on your chips, Garry, but maybe the vox pop featured more residents worried about crime because that's the way it actually was immediately after a murder. Trouble with vox pops is they're a gut reaction to something that's just happened, and if that happens to be a murder people are almost bound to say they're worried about crime. The alternative is the bland: "I can't believe it, it's usually such a quiet area" etc.

Anyway, the smart reporter would gather the actual crime figures for the area.

The really snart reporter would investigate the racial element: the victim was a Geordie.